IPPCA - Dedicated to quality in the Aquatic Industry. Ask a Pro!

Why do you need to continue to add bacteria to a pond once it is established with bacteria?

This is a good question...................once your filter media and the walls of the pond are established, this of course is a seasoned pond of at least two full seasons(Takes about 12-18 months to be this way) why then do you add bacteria every week?

As a Dedicated Koi pond person we don't use bacteria not even every week, month or year. We don't use even on start ups, its done by seeding with existing system(holding systems, or another pond). Or we just start from scratch adding Koi slowly and over time as system matures. Once you have a balanced system and all the bacteria players are there year-in year-out................

So why do you add bacteria on a weekly basis's?

Most bacterias in a bottle are heterotrophic species which can slow the autotrophic nitrification species, actually retard the cycling process down.

Would like to hear input as to what your thoughts are on this subject.

Koiman

Let me add an example I ran into this past summer. A pond owner called me for a consultation on some problems he was having with his pond (an ADI "system" rock and gravel pond, 24" deep, well overstocked with koi and goldfish). One of the questions he asked was "Why do I have to keep adding bacteria once a week? My bacteria bill for the previous year was over $800!" Long story short, I told him to not purchase the bacteria this year and let the pond go without it and see what happened and if things did not get better (made some other suggestions also), to call me and I would come over and take responsibility for the results. I never heard from him......

As far as adding bottled bacteria, we do use it here in Indiana during spring cleanings since much of the bacteria is lost during the cold winters. We also use it when setting up new ponds instead of seeding the filter with water from our own greenhouse ponds just in case we missed something in our own ponds. The last thing we would want to do is seed a customers pond with our water and then find out we had a parasite or illness present and we just spread that to another pond. We do our best to make sure our ponds are as safe as possible, but we are not perfect. Just my thoughts...great subject that I would like to learn more about myself.

Ok let me post a rambling of JR's (James Reilly aka wildbill at IPPCA) This was from another perish posted a few days back. This may shed some futher light on this matter, if not bring some new questions up. JR is the East coast editor for Koi Nations and also writes for Koi USA as well.

Koiman

I admit right away that this issue is one I need more education on. As I mentioned before, I use bottled bacteria and according to JR's comments, I may be doing more harm than good. However, in seeing his observations about the higher percentage of hetertrophic bacteria in bottled bacteria, I have something to add to the conversation. I found this article (http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/GRENH2O.html) some time ago and it discusses the theory that hetertrophic bacteria is responsible for algae control. While the article is dated (1996), perhaps you and others could take a look at it and see what you think. The author raises some interesting observations and has been helpful to me in developing my maintenance program for decorative ponds. I guess I am now left wondering what is the proper balance between autotrophic and heterotrophic bacteria in a well balanced pond?

Maybe it sounded like we just use juice from anywhere and seed.....No and for the very reason you stated. What we do use to seed system is an existing pond or the temp system set up using there existing filter till new pond is done. Or we use ammonia chloride to jump start system......whole other post for that one.

If no existing (filter or pond)and it is a brand new pond, then we start it up and slowly add Koi and watch the balance of water. We don't sell bacteria of any kind or even stock it. You have to understand that we do 99% Dedicated Koi Ponds? and really don't have calls for water-gardens installs. We do service them and do spring clean outs as well, but here again we also teach the proper stocking levels and feeding along with maintaining water change outs(10-15% per week).

Never did buy into this once a year program..............................

Lol.....................don't need to go to site that would be Norm Meck who is a friend and one of my teachers from 15-20 yrs ago. He lives about 15 miles from me. Very smart man when it come to water and products. I beleive he will still take calls, I know he has slowed down and is enjoying his retirment more now adays. I can send you his email addy if you like and chat with him direct Very nice man and he has tested most all products out there on the market, so knows the results and don't be offended if he replies back "Just snake oil" that is his favorite saying.

I thought I better post this to help folks that may not know what they are.


Autotrophs- Autotrophic organisms are capable of synthesising energy from inorganic material, such as plants who obtain their energy from the sun. These animals are essential in ecosystems as they are known as the primary producers, as they are the main contributors of the net energy in a particular system.

Heterotrophs- Organisms that cannot synthesise their own food, and therefore rely on other food sources found within the environment. Many bacteria and fungi are heterotrophs, and are parasitic therefore leech the energy from other organisms in order to survive.

I found all that interesting.

However, there are so many variables.....like adding water from the tap, well, creek, rainwater, etc. All kinds of things affect bacteria, algae, and much else in most real-world ponds in the average backyard. If anyone ever comes up with something that "always" works, I'll try it probably.
(But with skepticism.)

Max

Ummmmmm....... a shovel full of dirt! It has more good bateria then anything you can buy. That was told to me by Norm Meck about 15 plus yrs ago.................Oh it does work by the way......

So you have a watergarden or pond that has floating algae/powder algea and so forth........so what feeds that algea?

Detrius/mulm/fish by product/ammonia from fish/uneaten food and so forth which creats a microscopic food.

So what does dried bacteria really do then? It eats the above item as a food source....thus Heterotrophs,which in turn starve out the food source for algea. Which is natures own bio filter.

So if we have a pre-filter(clean regulary) then to a bio filter(backwashed) and water changes,reduced stocking,reduce food..........wow same effect that the 29.95 bottle of Heterotrophs are doing.......... yes?

Dilute the pollutants what a concept....yes?

P.S
Be carefull not to starve your bio-converter, it needs its food source as well........

Let's talk about bog filters which I have become a fan of. Specifically, the cleaning of a bog filter... I understand that we reversed the flow of the bog filter by placing a sump pump in the 'chimney' and then hose down the bog continually. The water passes down, rather than up, through the rocks and somewhat cleans the silt, etc from the rock surfaces. This wash water is pumped to waste.

Question: Doesn't the chlorinated water from the 'tap' kill the bacteria at the cleaning? If so, a regular cleaning would keep the bog from ever doing its job.

Thanks for any answers.

You would use "POND WATER" to do the cleaning of the pond. That way you have done a major water change on the pond and didn't kill the bacteria in the bog.

Make sense?

from bogfiltration.com: "Does it need to be periodically cleaned? Only if you want it to keep filtering!!!! Based upon the size and shape of the filter I'm about to describe, it will be, if not a necessity, of huge benefit to clean/backflush these filters every couple of months during your growing season."
I understand you use pond water to do a pond cleanout... but what about the bog filter itself? The volume of water necessary to clean a bog filter and wasted... would it drain the pond too much?...

Thanks "G" lady.

A couple of years ago we did an experiement and cleaned the bogs every other month during the growing season. The pond cleans in the spring were easier, but $$$$$ wise the client lost. We have given the client the option to do the periodical clean outs during the season.

As far as the water, we haven't had that problem with the ponds/bogs we've done.

Well I would like to put a penny in on this topic.....When we do the spring clean we remove the fish of course, and start at the bog first using the main pond as flush water....pond will be drained anyways. Now as for the 60 day service of the bog depending on size of pond that could be a problem.

Most ponds that have a bog filtration are going to be larger then your standerd 8x12 pond or there abouts. Most I have come across are in the 6-12,000 gal range........so you have some room to use pond water to flush.

We pump out the bog water and as its dropping it will pull down debris and contents within. We then use some of the main pond to finish up flush, this may drop the water 4-6 in depending on size of pond. I consider that as a water change out, add new water treat the tap water with ST or Ultimate or ClorAm-X.

We find by doing this that your bog will be cleaner and healther due to less debris allowed to build up. So it will be easier to clean, less time to clean,reducing channaling in filter.....which sums up to a healther pond balance.

Oh one other thing less dirt more o2......takes o2 to break down all this junk.

Now on this next comment I may here some hoofs click........ on the smaller ponds with bio-falls(s) and skimmer(s) we do the 60 day service as well. But in this case we pull skimmer pads and use a sweeper nozzel to wash them clean. We also pull the bio-fall pads out and do the same cleaning, along with the bags of lava/gravel/bioballs or what ever media the installer used. And here is where the hoofs may click ...we do this with tap water.

Oh yea! the bacteria will re-seed itself in over the next few days anyways....so what was lost? Nothing but sediment, detritus,parasites,channaling effect,any other dirt item's,better flow rate.

We also use a wet/dry vac and flush and suck out sediment that maybe on bottom of filter box....here again removing debris that might other wise return to system.

Reason being is the skimmer pads are nothing more the a dirt collector, catches the heavy and the smaller goes through the blender(pump(s). This then is sent to bio-fall(s) which has as a rule 3 more pads, which once again traps the finer debris. The media does have some bacteria in it, but what little there is is not a problem to lose. Yep its gone after washing pads and media.....hear a few heart beats skipping

Ok not to worry folks..........those pads have a very small footprint of bio action going on, the main bio film and bacteria bed is in the main pond....remember what SSA is? The rock,gravel and walls of liner are going to have way far more bio action going on then 3 pads and a 50 pound bag of media!

If removing dirt and detritus that builds/catches in the pads on a regular service program then your reducing:

1. A food source for algae
2. Better trapping due to reducing channeling
3. Preventing fines from re-entering system.
4. Reducing the area's that bad bacteria and parasites can breed.
5. Reducing bio-load on the pond itself
6. Reduces the the odds of health issues

We want to alway remember to "Dilute the pollutants" I find by doing these simple steps it not only benfits the fish,it helps keep pond in a better balance......I guess GW was the one that started the "clean only once a year" program.

So let me ask you this would you flush your toilet only once a year? Remember our fish are swimming in there's!

Bottom line it just makes sence to clean out system componet's more often and not just once a year.......So in the end the result is happy fish...happy pond....thus a happy home owner.